HP's IPOD -- here's some braying from Thurrott

Typical windroid article.

http://www.winnetmag.com/Article/Ar...1446/41446.html

Lloyd

In article <130120041644073714%lloydparsons@spamac.com>,
Lloyd Parsons <lloydparsons@spamac.com> wrote:

> http://www.winnetmag.com/Article/Ar...1446/41446.html

Which HP has publically repudiated. Who to trust...who to trust? Carly
or Thurrott...Carly or Thurrott? I just can't make up my mind.

Does anybody get the impression that this HP/Apple deal has really upset
some applecarts. Boy I sure do. Even Michael Dell "had nothing to say
about it".

In article <lkrupp-BF7075.17223013012004@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>,
Lawrence A. Krupp <lkrupp@excite.com> wrote:

> In article <130120041644073714%lloydparsons@spamac.com>,
> Lloyd Parsons <lloydparsons@spamac.com> wrote:
>
> > http://www.winnetmag.com/Article/Ar...1446/41446.html
>
> Which HP has publically repudiated. Who to trust...who to trust? Carly
> or Thurrott...Carly or Thurrott? I just can't make up my mind.
>
> Does anybody get the impression that this HP/Apple deal has really upset
> some applecarts. Boy I sure do. Even Michael Dell "had nothing to say
> about it".

I can't find it, but I know that I read an article yesterday or earlier
today that talked about what Dell had to say about it. As I remember
it was pretty much in line with MS's viewpoint.

I would say that this hp ipod thing has the industry up in arms, but
they (ms especially) don't want you to notice it.

Lloyd

> I can't find it, but I know that I read an article yesterday or earlier
> today that talked about what Dell had to say about it. As I remember
> it was pretty much in line with MS's viewpoint.
>
> I would say that this hp ipod thing has the industry up in arms, but
> they (ms especially) don't want you to notice it.
>
> Lloyd

I just love the M$ spokesmen who get up to warn people not to use the
proprietary codec AAC.

Yes, fewer players and music services support it rather than WMA, but
it's definitely not because it's less open and independent tests do not
support the claim that it's of lower quality.

WMA is like a lot of M$ technologies -- widely licensed, but still
tightly and centrally controlled.

So fine, AAC is proprietary in its own way, but IMHO not as tightly
licensed and controlled.

The simple fact is, there ARE other players besides the iPod that can
play AAC from the iTMS, and there COULD be other services besides iTunes
that offer songs in that format. At least it beats Liquid Audio. You are
NOT tied down through using AAC.

The only thing I want added to the iPod - and I agree with others here -
is .OGG support. Through plugin, it's already available in iTunes.

Seeker1 wrote:

> So fine, AAC is proprietary in its own way, but IMHO not as tightly
> licensed and controlled.
>
> The simple fact is, there ARE other players besides the iPod that can
> play AAC from the iTMS, and there COULD be other services besides iTunes
> that offer songs in that format.


Hmmm...like, could an open-source player be extended to play
the iTunes "protected" AAC files? Is the spec available? Is
it expensive?

Duke

In article <seeker1-351C57.13361815012004@comcast.ash.giganews.com>, Seeker1
wrote:
> The simple fact is, there ARE other players besides the iPod that can play
> AAC from the iTMS, and there COULD be other services besides iTunes that
> offer songs in that format. At least it beats Liquid Audio. You are NOT

Real is using AAC (at 192 kbps), but I don't think they use the same DRM
scheme as Apple.

What players besides iPod can play iTMS stuff? (Without kludges like
burning a CD and then ripping that as MP3).

--
--Tim Smith

In article <G8mdneqyF9YHeZvdRVn-hA@io.com>,
Duke Robillard <duke@NOSPAMio.com> wrote:

> Seeker1 wrote:
>
> > So fine, AAC is proprietary in its own way, but IMHO not as tightly
> > licensed and controlled.
> >
> > The simple fact is, there ARE other players besides the iPod that can
> > play AAC from the iTMS, and there COULD be other services besides iTunes
> > that offer songs in that format.
>
>
> Hmmm...like, could an open-source player be extended to play
> the iTunes "protected" AAC files? Is the spec available? Is
> it expensive?

Someone has already written code to allow VLC to do this. You run a
Windows program which writes your iTunes key out to a file, and then you
can use this key in VLC under Linux to play your protected music.

Slashdot mentioned this a couple of weeks ago.

--
"Our country puts $1 billion a year up to help feed the hungry. And we're by far
the most generous nation in the world when it comes to that, and I'm proud to
report that. This isn't a contest of who's the most generous. I'm just telling
you as an aside. We're generous. We shouldn't be bragging about it. But we are.
We're very generous."
-- George W. Bush in Washington, D.C., July 16, 2003

>
>Real is using AAC (at 192 kbps), but I don't think they use the same DRM
>scheme as Apple.
>

Real uses AAC with Herlix DRM and Apple uses AAC with Fairplay DRM.
As far as I know Fairplay is not licenced for use with any other music
store serive or digital player device. In other words the iPod is
tied into iTMS

I don't even think that Apple would be interested in licencing
Fairplay for devices non-apple devices (the HP iPod is just a rebadged
iPod) as this would affect the flow on affect on the sales of iPods
from the exclusive use of iTMS.

>
>WMA is like a lot of M$ technologies -- widely licensed, but still
>tightly and centrally controlled.
>
>So fine, AAC is proprietary in its own way, but IMHO not as tightly
>licensed and controlled.
>

It is not the AAC that is proprietary to Apple, it is Fairplay,
Apple's DRM. As far as I am aware Apple will not licence this for use
on any device or any online music store that is not an iPod or
son-of-iPod or iTMS. So IMHO this is much more tightly licenced and
controlled than Microsoft's WMA with DRM

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:57:05 GMT, Tod Martin
<wrefwerf@wsergfwerfg.com> wrote:

>
>>
>>Real is using AAC (at 192 kbps), but I don't think they use the same DRM
>>scheme as Apple.
>>
>
>Real uses AAC with Herlix DRM and Apple uses AAC with Fairplay DRM.

Sorry that was a typo, Real uses Helix, not Herlix

In article <lr9f009rug92vf93a9i5nljk5l97ntofa1@4ax.com>,
Tod Martin <wrefwerf@wsergfwerfg.com> wrote:

> >
> >WMA is like a lot of M$ technologies -- widely licensed, but still
> >tightly and centrally controlled.
> >
> >So fine, AAC is proprietary in its own way, but IMHO not as tightly
> >licensed and controlled.
> >
>
> It is not the AAC that is proprietary to Apple, it is Fairplay,
> Apple's DRM.

Except that once again that appears to be erroneous, as Apple appears to
be licensing it from Circle Group Internet and its division VeriDisc.

http://64.244.235.240/info_about.asp

> Created in June 2000, Veridisc(TM) is a digital rights management (DRM) company
> with a patent-pending DRM system. DRM is vital to the development of the
> digital content market, which JP Morgan estimates a value of $275 billion by
> 2003, however this growth has been slowed by the need for a secure
> copyrighting and payment system.
>
> Veridisc(TM) 's digital rights management system guides consumers to register
> and authorize access to multimedia content and commercial software via the
> Internet when utilizing material on their computer. Veridisc(TM) was created to
> respond to the problems that have emerged from unauthorized duplication and
> distribution of digital audio and video content, and provides an interactive
> registration and authorization mechanism for consumers.
>
> Veridisc(TM) offers the DRM system to entertainment and software companies and
> other digital content originators. We believe that companies will use
> Veridisc(TM) and FairPlay(TM) because the system can provide new revenue generating
> opportunities and control over duplication processes in an industry concerned
> about the loss of control over duplication and distribution of digital
> products.

http://www.jmdutton.com/Research/CR...ort_121802.html

> Veridisc Corporation
> In July 2000, CGI Capital began an e-Mentor project with its wholly owned
> subsidiary, Veridisc Corporation, which owns Veridisc(TM), a patent-pending
> digital rights management (DRM) system that guides consumers to register and
> authorize access to multimedia content and commercial software via the
> Internet when utilizing the material on their computers. The system is based
> on the FairPlay(TM) methodology and is offered to entertainment and software
> companies. FairPlay(TM) is Veridisc's commercial Web distribution platform for
> multimedia files.
>
> The methodology is based on the understanding that online consumers will pay
> for digital content, if given a fair and reasonable proposition. Circle Group
> management, after discussions with industry peers and analysts, believes that
> FairPlay(TM) will be accepted commercially. FairPlay(TM) provides easy,
> cost-effective solutions to problems created by web sites such as Napster and
> widespread piracy of commercial software. Veridisc is currently refining its
> system and plans to launch the system commercially in 2002. Veridisc had no
> revenues in the twelve month period ended December 31, 2001.
>
> The Veridisc(TM) system is operational, and is currently being implemented in
> one project involving an online digital marketplace for wowzle.com. Veridisc
> generates revenue from up-front set-up fees, and back-end transaction fees
> through content downloaded using the system. As use of Veridisc(TM) expands,
> management anticipates the back-end transaction fees to be the larger share
> of revenues. These back-end fees are based on a percentage of the overall
> sales generated through the Veridisc(TM) system. The Company is in the process
> of selling, merging, licensing and/or entering into a strategic alliance with
> respect to Veridisc Corporation.

However, I do admit that you do get a strange message when you click on
the link for "How do I get Fairplay"?

> Fairplay is currently still under development. If you would like to be
> notified of updates on our process, please isert your email address below:

Obviously that Is NOT the case.

Some people have said that Apple acquired Fairplay from VeriDisc, but if
that is the case, how can their site continue to claim that it is THEIR
intellectual property?

The only source I can find for that claim says it is based on personal
communication:

http://www.macobserver.com/comments....shtml?id=39125

> Circle Group, the owner of Veridisc, sold "Fairplay and a related component
> to Apple." (Telephone communication with Greg Halpern of Circle Group, Fall
> 2003)