A student friend of mine is looking for a cheap solution to her
problem whilst studying Media at college and then university. An iBook
is £800 upwards and she cannot afford that. I have a spare IBM
Thinkpad running Windows ME, P3 500MHz cpu and 128MB RAM. Can she use
this for her work?
She will need to use iTunes and iMovie, but if I could I would put
iLife on the laptop. I am wondering if they will work on Win ME or can
I put a Mac O/s on the laptop?

I have never used an Apple pc or otherwise. I understand they are
different to PCs but is that like comparing Linux and Windows or is it
more fundamental?

As she is a student at college, what educational offers might we find
if the only solution is to purchase a Mac system?

I hope you have time and understanding to answer this, it is beginning
to bug me, becasue lots of people think they know it all about MS etc
but I can find no one to help with this.
TIA - Chris

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:24:34 -0800, Smudge wrote:

> A student friend of mine is looking for a cheap solution to her
> problem whilst studying Media at college and then university. An iBook
> is £800 upwards and she cannot afford that. I have a spare IBM
> Thinkpad running Windows ME, P3 500MHz cpu and 128MB RAM. Can she use
> this for her work?
> She will need to use iTunes and iMovie, but if I could I would put
> iLife on the laptop. I am wondering if they will work on Win ME or can
> I put a Mac O/s on the laptop?

No you cant.Win and Mac are totally different OSes, which use different
types of processors, so ones applications and services just cannot be run
on the other.
Your best bet for that laptop would be to get Linux installed, and you'll
have a good choice of free applications to use, maybe not with the appeal
of Apples software, but it'll certainly do the job, and cost nothing doing
it.
For Linux questions, please post to uk.comp.os.linux

Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the 'minus' to 'plus'.
http://www.dvatc.co.uk - Off-road cycling in the North Midlands.

chris.smith[at]zeronet.co.uk (Smudge) wrote:

> As she is a student at college, what educational offers might we find
> if the only solution is to purchase a Mac system?

Educational discount for Macs is around 8%.

--
Alec McKenzie
mckenzie[at]despammed.com

Smudge wrote:
> A student friend of mine is looking for a cheap solution to her
> problem whilst studying Media at college and then university. An iBook
> is £800 upwards and she cannot afford that. I have a spare IBM
> Thinkpad running Windows ME, P3 500MHz cpu and 128MB RAM. Can she use
> this for her work?
> She will need to use iTunes and iMovie, but if I could I would put
> iLife on the laptop. I am wondering if they will work on Win ME or can
> I put a Mac O/s on the laptop?
>
> I have never used an Apple pc or otherwise. I understand they are
> different to PCs but is that like comparing Linux and Windows or is it
> more fundamental?
>
> As she is a student at college, what educational offers might we find
> if the only solution is to purchase a Mac system?
>
> I hope you have time and understanding to answer this, it is beginning
> to bug me, becasue lots of people think they know it all about MS etc
> but I can find no one to help with this.
> TIA - Chris

you can run up to mac os 8 on a pc. you can't run any mac os which is
written for the powerpc architecture.

google for it. i was looking at it this morning but forget the name of the
software.

Smudge wrote:
> A student friend of mine is looking for a cheap solution to her
> problem whilst studying Media at college and then university. An iBook
> is £800 upwards and she cannot afford that. I have a spare IBM
> Thinkpad running Windows ME, P3 500MHz cpu and 128MB RAM. Can she use
> this for her work?
> She will need to use iTunes and iMovie, but if I could I would put
> iLife on the laptop. I am wondering if they will work on Win ME or can
> I put a Mac O/s on the laptop?
>
> I have never used an Apple pc or otherwise. I understand they are
> different to PCs but is that like comparing Linux and Windows or is it
> more fundamental?
>
> As she is a student at college, what educational offers might we find
> if the only solution is to purchase a Mac system?
>
> I hope you have time and understanding to answer this, it is beginning
> to bug me, becasue lots of people think they know it all about MS etc
> but I can find no one to help with this.
> TIA - Chris

a better option would be to use a mac with virtual pc

Smudge wrote:
> A student friend of mine is looking for a cheap solution to her
> problem whilst studying Media at college and then university. An iBook
> is £800 upwards and she cannot afford that. I have a spare IBM

What can she afford? Ebay has iBooks for around the 500 pound mark;
older models considerably less.

Richard

--
Richard P. Grant | Hey diddle diddle, The cat and the fiddle;
0x5F9559B1 | The cow jumped over the moon.
| The little dog laughed to see such fun
www.rg-d.com/BioLOG | And scored some more stuff on a spoon

Alec McKenzie <mckenzie[at]despammed.com> wrote:
> chris.smith[at]zeronet.co.uk (Smudge) wrote:

> > As she is a student at college, what educational offers might we find
> > if the only solution is to purchase a Mac system?

> Educational discount for Macs is around 8%.

It varies depending on institution IF you phone up Apple directly and ask them;
I know student who got their powerbooks with a reduction of 450 pounds (so
almost 1/3) - this was in July.

Ali
--
Nazim Ali Bharmal
Research Student room : 908 Rutherford
Astrophysics, Cavendish Laboratory, Madingley Road, Cambridge CB3 0HE

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:54:51 +0000, Kez wrote:
> you can run up to mac os 8 on a pc. you can't run any mac os which is
> written for the powerpc architecture.
>
> google for it. i was looking at it this morning but forget the name of the
> software.

BasiliskII
http://www.uni-mainz.de/~bauec002/B2Main.html

Squint Pintus wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:54:51 +0000, Kez wrote:
>> you can run up to mac os 8 on a pc. you can't run any mac os which
>> is written for the powerpc architecture.
>>
>> google for it. i was looking at it this morning but forget the name
>> of the software.
>
> BasiliskII
> http://www.uni-mainz.de/~bauec002/B2Main.html

it wasn't that one, but yeah, that would do it.

softmac was the one i was looking at earlier

http://www.emulators.com/softmac.htm

Richard P. Grant wrote:
> Smudge wrote:
>> A student friend of mine is looking for a cheap solution to her
>> problem whilst studying Media at college and then university. An
>> iBook is £800 upwards and she cannot afford that. I have a spare IBM
>
> What can she afford? Ebay has iBooks for around the 500 pound mark;
> older models considerably less.
>
> Richard

to be fair, i'd probably let mine go around that mark

Kez wrote:
> you can run up to mac os 8 on a pc.
Not sure if that is correct somehow

I would have saved a fortune

Ian
--
So long, and thanks for all the fish
http://homepage.mac.com/ianmoff
iChat/AIM: ianmoff[at]mac.com

In article <c25r7p$1pmvo5$1[at]ID-105400.news.uni-berlin.de>, A J Rimmer
<arnie_j[at]hotmail.com> wrote:

> Kez wrote:
> > you can run up to mac os 8 on a pc.
> Not sure if that is correct somehow
>
> I would have saved a fortune

It's sort of correct, in that you can run various Mac emulators, all of
which emulate 680x0 Macs, and can therefore run OS 8 (or is it 8.1)
maximum.

Phil Taylor

A J Rimmer wrote:
> Kez wrote:
>> you can run up to mac os 8 on a pc.
> Not sure if that is correct somehow
>
> I would have saved a fortune
>
> Ian

you think?

http://www.emulators.com/softmac.htm

A J Rimmer wrote:
> Kez wrote:
>> you can run up to mac os 8 on a pc.
> Not sure if that is correct somehow
>
> I would have saved a fortune
>
> Ian

you think?

http://www.emulators.com/softmac.htm

> > What can she afford? Ebay has iBooks for around the 500 pound mark;
> > older models considerably less.
> >
> > Richard
>
> to be fair, i'd probably let mine go around that mark

if that is a serious offer, a spec would be appreciated please?

Smudge wrote:
> A student friend of mine is looking for a cheap solution to her
> problem whilst studying Media at college and then university.
> She will need to use iTunes and iMovie.

What I want to know is what sort of course *requires* iTunes and
iMovie, and what sort of college/university doesn't supply the
tools needed for the study!

It would have been like me studying EE and being expected to have
my own oscilloscope, Sun work station and FPGA manufacturing
facility!

Perhaps that's a bit of an exaggeration, but I find it hard to
believe a course/establishment requires *specific* software and
thus hardware but doesn't supply it.

kt.

In <c276n6$1r664m$1[at]ID-142568.news.uni-berlin.de> the right honorable X
Kyle M Thompson wrote:
> Smudge wrote:
>> A student friend of mine is looking for a cheap solution to her
>> problem whilst studying Media at college and then university.
>> She will need to use iTunes and iMovie.
>
> What I want to know is what sort of course *requires* iTunes and
> iMovie, and what sort of college/university doesn't supply the
> tools needed for the study!
>
> It would have been like me studying EE and being expected to have
> my own oscilloscope, Sun work station and FPGA manufacturing
> facility!
>
> Perhaps that's a bit of an exaggeration, but I find it hard to
> believe a course/establishment requires *specific* software and
> thus hardware but doesn't supply it.


indeed, what sort of course specifies iMovie but fails to mention that
it runs only on a Macintosh with a G3, 4 or 5 processor?


--
Patrick

Your friendly neighbourhood Trendy Uncle

X Kyle M Thompson <spam[at]spamnotspam.tk> wrote:

> Smudge wrote:
> > A student friend of mine is looking for a cheap solution to her
> > problem whilst studying Media at college and then university.
> > She will need to use iTunes and iMovie.
>
> What I want to know is what sort of course *requires* iTunes and
> iMovie, and what sort of college/university doesn't supply the
> tools needed for the study!
>
> It would have been like me studying EE and being expected to have
> my own oscilloscope, Sun work station and FPGA manufacturing
> facility!
>
> Perhaps that's a bit of an exaggeration, but I find it hard to
> believe a course/establishment requires *specific* software and
> thus hardware but doesn't supply it.

That's nothing! When I was studying for my BA (Philosophy) I was
expected to supply my own brains and insights!

Daniele
--
Apple Juice Ltd
Chapter Arts Centre
Market Road www.apple-juice.co.uk
Cardiff CF5 1QE 029 2019 0140

D.M. Procida wrote:
> X Kyle M Thompson <spam[at]spamnotspam.tk> wrote:
>>I find it hard to
>>believe a course/establishment requires *specific* software and
>>thus hardware but doesn't supply it.
> That's nothing! When I was studying for my BA (Philosophy) I was
> expected to supply my own brains and insights!

Ridiculous, the entry requirements are getting stricter all the time.

If you could let me know of a good supplier I would be grateful,
I've tried http://www.insight.com, but they're no help.

kt.

X Kyle M Thompson wrote:
>
> What I want to know is what sort of course *requires* iTunes and
> iMovie, and what sort of college/university doesn't supply the
> tools needed for the study!

Kate's doing Human Bugology through the OU. They *require* you to use
certain software - most recently a POS molecular modelling package -
which they supply on CD..

Guess what? It's Peecee-only. And the course work takes you through
this program, *teaches you how to use it* (which I find incredible, never
mind) and the TMAs have questions dependent on the use of this package.

Fortunately, We Have Means And Ways and have been able to work around it
(it helps I'm currently pretending to be a professional structural
biologist, of course; and that Kate works at a company that does
molecular modelling routinely).

And in her first year some of the teaching wasn't from books, but from a
Macromedia presentation that only ran under Windows!

So, unfortunately, it's not an isolated instance of idiocy.


--
'You play a member of a secretive and powerful magical sect with the ability
to create and mold life to do your bidding. You have been kidnapped by a
sinister outsider who will do anything to get your secrets'
My job description, from http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/geneforge/

X Kyle M Thompson <spam[at]spamnotspam.tk> wrote:

> D.M. Procida wrote:
> > X Kyle M Thompson <spam[at]spamnotspam.tk> wrote:
> >>I find it hard to
> >>believe a course/establishment requires *specific* software and
> >>thus hardware but doesn't supply it.
> > That's nothing! When I was studying for my BA (Philosophy) I was
> > expected to supply my own brains and insights!
>
> Ridiculous, the entry requirements are getting stricter all the time.
>
> If you could let me know of a good supplier I would be grateful,
> I've tried http://www.insight.com, but they're no help.

Can't help with the insights, but the brains are available here:
<http://tinyurl.com/2phk2>

I woulda done thought Daniele woulda done knowed that, of all people.

--
Pd

Richard P. Grant <rpg14[at]yahoo.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> X Kyle M Thompson wrote:
> >
> > What I want to know is what sort of course *requires* iTunes and
> > iMovie, and what sort of college/university doesn't supply the
> > tools needed for the study!
>
> Kate's doing Human Bugology through the OU.
[snippage]
> And in her first year some of the teaching wasn't from books, but from a
> Macromedia presentation that only ran under Windows!

But Macromedia stuff should be multi-platform. Does the OU get subsidies
from Microsoft to ensure their stuff is broken on other platforms?

--
Pd

PeterD <pd.news[at]dsl.pipex.invalid> wrote:

> > And in her first year some of the teaching wasn't from books, but from a
> > Macromedia presentation that only ran under Windows!
>
> But Macromedia stuff should be multi-platform. Does the OU get subsidies
> from Microsoft to ensure their stuff is broken on other platforms?

Yes, by the look of it. Carol has started teaching at teh OU, and has
already had to send off a number of "I don't and won't use Windows"
letters to them.

Daniele
--
Apple Juice Ltd
Chapter Arts Centre
Market Road www.apple-juice.co.uk
Cardiff CF5 1QE 029 2019 0140

X Kyle M Thompson <spam[at]spamnotspam.tk> wrote:

> D.M. Procida wrote:
> > X Kyle M Thompson <spam[at]spamnotspam.tk> wrote:
> >>I find it hard to
> >>believe a course/establishment requires *specific* software and
> >>thus hardware but doesn't supply it.
> > That's nothing! When I was studying for my BA (Philosophy) I was
> > expected to supply my own brains and insights!
>
> Ridiculous, the entry requirements are getting stricter all the time.
>
> If you could let me know of a good supplier I would be grateful,
> I've tried http://www.insight.com, but they're no help.

Gem!

-z-


--
eh?

In article <1ga4lci.pi9qbu19d78acN%pd.news[at]dsl.pipex.invalid>,
pd.news[at]dsl.pipex.invalid (PeterD) wrote:

>Can't help with the insights, but the brains are available here:
><http://tinyurl.com/2phk2>

But are the brains extracted with consent?

Even hops have feelings, you know.

--
Peter

D.M. Procida wrote:
> PeterD <pd.news[at]dsl.pipex.invalid> wrote:
>
>> > And in her first year some of the teaching wasn't from books, but from a
>> > Macromedia presentation that only ran under Windows!
>>
>> But Macromedia stuff should be multi-platform. Does the OU get subsidies
>> from Microsoft to ensure their stuff is broken on other platforms?

This is what puzzled us.

>
> Yes, by the look of it. Carol has started teaching at teh OU, and has
> already had to send off a number of "I don't and won't use Windows"
> letters to them.

Good for her.

--
Richard P. Grant 0x5F9559B1 MRC Lab of Mol Biol
You can say any foolish thing to a dog, and the dog will give you a look
that says, "My God, you're right! I never would've thought of that!"
- Sean Connery

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:38:08 +0000, A.Lee wrote
(in message <pan.2004.03.03.17.38.07.991900[at]darkroom.minus.com>):

> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:24:34 -0800, Smudge wrote:
>
>> A student friend of mine is looking for a cheap solution to her
>> problem whilst studying Media at college and then university. An iBook
>> is £800 upwards and she cannot afford that. I have a spare IBM
>> Thinkpad running Windows ME, P3 500MHz cpu and 128MB RAM. Can she use
>> this for her work?
>> She will need to use iTunes and iMovie, but if I could I would put
>> iLife on the laptop. I am wondering if they will work on Win ME or can
>> I put a Mac O/s on the laptop?
>
> No you cant.Win and Mac are totally different OSes, which use different
> types of processors, so ones applications and services just cannot be run
> on the other.
> Your best bet for that laptop would be to get Linux installed, and you'll
> have a good choice of free applications to use, maybe not with the appeal
> of Apples software, but it'll certainly do the job, and cost nothing doing
> it.
> For Linux questions, please post to uk.comp.os.linux
>
> Alan.
>
>

why does she need iTunes and iMovie although these are very good applications
you can get alternative ones for the pc such as premiere.

D.M. Procida wrote:
> X Kyle M Thompson <spam[at]spamnotspam.tk> wrote:
>
>> Smudge wrote:
>>> A student friend of mine is looking for a cheap solution to her
>>> problem whilst studying Media at college and then university.
>>> She will need to use iTunes and iMovie.
>>
>> What I want to know is what sort of course *requires* iTunes and
>> iMovie, and what sort of college/university doesn't supply the
>> tools needed for the study!
>>
>> It would have been like me studying EE and being expected to have
>> my own oscilloscope, Sun work station and FPGA manufacturing
>> facility!
>>
>> Perhaps that's a bit of an exaggeration, but I find it hard to
>> believe a course/establishment requires *specific* software and
>> thus hardware but doesn't supply it.
>
> That's nothing! When I was studying for my BA (Philosophy) I was
> expected to supply my own brains and insights!

you need brains and insight to do Philosophy?
Damn.. thought it was just something you did if you didn't know what else to
take!

--
Woody
Alienrat Design Ltd
www.alienrat.com

Richard P. Grant wrote:
> Kate's doing Human Bugology through the OU. They *require* you to use
> certain software - most recently a POS molecular modelling package -
> which they supply on CD..
>
> Guess what? It's Peecee-only. And the course work takes you through
> this program, *teaches you how to use it* (which I find incredible,
> never mind) and the TMAs have questions dependent on the use of this
> package.
>
> And in her first year some of the teaching wasn't from books, but
> from a Macromedia presentation that only ran under Windows!
>
> So, unfortunately, it's not an isolated instance of idiocy.

There is an OU on a mac web site which has workarounds for most of the
software they use - forget the address but you can get it from sigs of
people in the Mac group on first class
There is also a petition about the OUs windows only stance

--
Woody
Alienrat Design Ltd
www.alienrat.com

Richard P. Grant <rpg14[at]yahoo.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> X Kyle M Thompson wrote:
> >
> > What I want to know is what sort of course *requires* iTunes and
> > iMovie, and what sort of college/university doesn't supply the
> > tools needed for the study!
>
> Kate's doing Human Bugology through the OU. They *require* you to use
> certain software - most recently a POS molecular modelling package -
> which they supply on CD..
>
> Guess what? It's Peecee-only. And the course work takes you through
> this program, *teaches you how to use it* (which I find incredible, never
> mind)

Why incredible? If students have to learn to use a tool, why not teach
'em? I got taught how to use vacuum equipment and how to solder and
suchlike at university; why not teach someone to use an application
package?

(Hmm. Now I think of it, when I was at university, it was assumed that
everyone who had joined the physics with electronics course already knew
how to solder and build a circuit from a circuit diagram and use a
'scope and suchlike. And it was also assumed that some of us could
program computers, so we could get an exemption from that part of the
course by writing a demonstration program; in Basic, on a Nascom II -
those were the days. Odd, that. Oh yes! That was back when university
students still had some brains and abilities. I did nominally get
taught how to solder at poly later on.)

>and the TMAs have questions dependent on the use of this package.

Those mysterious black monoliths turn up everywhere.

[snip]

> And in her first year some of the teaching wasn't from books, but from a
> Macromedia presentation that only ran under Windows!

That's quite impressive in a way.

> So, unfortunately, it's not an isolated instance of idiocy.

You'll be pleased to hear that my other half is doing a lot of work into
distance learning and on-line teaching and suchlike. She's quite keen
on ensuring no platform dependence. The on-line OU course Rebecca
tutored on a few years back worked happily running dedicated software on
Macs or Windoze; and I seem to recall that there was a Web interface to
the required whatever it was.

They're not quite *all* idiots. Just most of 'em.

Rowland.


--
Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell[at]dog.physics.org
PGP pub key 0x62DCCA78 Sorry - the spam got to me
http://www.mag-uk.org
UK biker? Join MAG and help keep bureaucracy at bay

Rowland McDonnell wrote:
>>
>> Guess what? It's Peecee-only. And the course work takes you through
>> this program, *teaches you how to use it* (which I find incredible, never
>> mind)
>
> Why incredible? If students have to learn to use a tool, why not teach
> 'em? I got taught how to use vacuum equipment and how to solder and
> suchlike at university; why not teach someone to use an application
> package?

Because then the student knows how to use the tool, and _if they're
lucky_ they also know how to do whatever it is they were using the tool
for. There's too great a risk that by just following the examples a
student will be able to get a 'right' answer but have no understanding
of what exactly it is they're doing and why. Maybe I'm too naïve.

They should be teaching, in this case, molecular modelling - NOT how to
use VMD (or RasMol or PDB or O or whatever). *Especially* when no
serious structural biologist would be seen dead using a program that
(only) runs under Windows.

>> And in her first year some of the teaching wasn't from books, but from a
>> Macromedia presentation that only ran under Windows!
>
> That's quite impressive in a way.

Yah. A lot of work must have gone into it.

>
>> So, unfortunately, it's not an isolated instance of idiocy.
>
> You'll be pleased to hear that my other half is doing a lot of work into
> distance learning and on-line teaching and suchlike. She's quite keen
> on ensuring no platform dependence. The on-line OU course Rebecca
> tutored on a few years back worked happily running dedicated software on
> Macs or Windoze; and I seem to recall that there was a Web interface to
> the required whatever it was.

Good. The tools should be transparent. It's like <WARNING! ON TOPIC
ALERT> your Mac - when you're doing something with a well-written
application that interfaces well with the hardware and everything else,
you don't notice what you're using, you just do it. You understand the
process of writing, drawing, creating, and the tool quietly lets you get
on with it. Hmm. Something like that anyway. Maybe it's just because
I don't learn how to use programs in that way.


--
for many a time/I have been half in love with easeful Death,
Call'd him soft names in many a mused rhyme, . . .
Now more than ever seems it rich to die,
To cease upon the midnight with no pain - Keats, "Ode to a Nightingale"

Woody <usenet[at]alienrat.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

> you need brains and insight to do Philosophy?
> Damn.. thought it was just something you did if you didn't know what else to
> take!

It strikes me that maths is physics for those who can't handle
reality[1]. Maybe philosophy is physics for those who can handle
neither reality nor maths?

Rowland.

[1] Mathematicians have been known to point out that physics is maths
for those who can't do maths. Someone then gets another beer.

--
Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell[at]dog.physics.org
PGP pub key 0x62DCCA78 Sorry - the spam got to me
http://www.mag-uk.org
UK biker? Join MAG and help keep bureaucracy at bay

Richard P. Grant <rpg14[at]yahoo.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> Rowland McDonnell wrote:
> >>
> >> Guess what? It's Peecee-only. And the course work takes you through
> >> this program, *teaches you how to use it* (which I find incredible, never
> >> mind)
> >
> > Why incredible? If students have to learn to use a tool, why not teach
> > 'em? I got taught how to use vacuum equipment and how to solder and
> > suchlike at university; why not teach someone to use an application
> > package?
>
> Because then the student knows how to use the tool, and _if they're
> lucky_ they also know how to do whatever it is they were using the tool
> for. There's too great a risk that by just following the examples a
> student will be able to get a 'right' answer but have no understanding
> of what exactly it is they're doing and why. Maybe I'm too naïve.

Ah - yes, I see what you mean. Yes. That sort of thing is a danger. I
was just assuming that the course structure would get round it. I
reaslise that this assumption is baseless and foolish and a sign of me
being an ignorant and callow youth.

> They should be teaching, in this case, molecular modelling - NOT how to
> use VMD (or RasMol or PDB or O or whatever).

True enough. Thing is, when *I* use a bit of software, I have to
understand the principles underlying whatever it is the software's doing
or I feel very, very uncomfortable. So if I'm going to use an
application, I pretty much insist on understanding the job that the
application's doing (this might explain my crabbiness at inadequate
documentation) - and I tend to forget that most people aren't like that.

I think the idea behind it is that of `learning by doing'; but I think
the point that the people designing these courses have missed is that
what `doing' ends up meaning for a lot of students in this context is
`manipulating a computer program' rather than `modelling molecules'.

> *Especially* when no
> serious structural biologist would be seen dead using a program that
> (only) runs under Windows.

Why does this not surprise me?

[snip]

> >> So, unfortunately, it's not an isolated instance of idiocy.
> >
> > You'll be pleased to hear that my other half is doing a lot of work into
> > distance learning and on-line teaching and suchlike. She's quite keen
> > on ensuring no platform dependence. The on-line OU course Rebecca
> > tutored on a few years back worked happily running dedicated software on
> > Macs or Windoze; and I seem to recall that there was a Web interface to
> > the required whatever it was.
>
> Good. The tools should be transparent.

I found out after I'd written that that just before she stopped working
for the OU, they went Windoze only.

> It's like <WARNING! ON TOPIC
> ALERT> your Mac - when you're doing something with a well-written
> application that interfaces well with the hardware and everything else,
> you don't notice what you're using, you just do it. You understand the
> process of writing, drawing, creating, and the tool quietly lets you get
> on with it. Hmm. Something like that anyway.

It ought to be transparent and I strongly object to using any computer
tools that don't work in that transparent way; this is (really) why I
like LaTeX.

> Maybe it's just because
> I don't learn how to use programs in that way.

Which way?

Rowland.

--
Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell[at]dog.physics.org
PGP pub key 0x62DCCA78 Sorry - the spam got to me
http://www.mag-uk.org
UK biker? Join MAG and help keep bureaucracy at bay

Rowland McDonnell wrote:

> reaslise that this assumption is baseless and foolish and a sign of me
> being an ignorant and callow youth.

Hey, that's my excuse, too.

> I found out after I'd written that that just before she stopped working
> for the OU, they went Windoze only.

Twonks.

>> Maybe it's just because
>> I don't learn how to use programs in that way.
>
> Which way?

I learn by actually doing. I check the documentation when I want to do
something that isn't obvious how to do.

--
Richard P. Grant 0x5F9559B1 MRC Lab of Mol Biol
rpg 'at' mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk http://www.rg-d.com/BioLOG/

MANIC SILVER BADGER

Richard P. Grant wrote:
>
> They should be teaching, in this case, molecular modelling - NOT how to
> use VMD (or RasMol or PDB or O or whatever). *Especially* when no
> serious structural biologist would be seen dead using a program that
> (only) runs under Windows.

Of course - I shouldn't be giving the impression that VMD runs only under
Windows - it doesn't.

I forget the name of the package that Kate was being forced to use, but
it wasn't VMD. VMD is actually pretty good. Sorry for any confusion.

r

--
Richard P. Grant | Hey diddle diddle, The cat and the fiddle;
0x5F9559B1 | The cow jumped over the moon.
| The little dog laughed to see such fun
www.rg-d.com/BioLOG | And scored some more stuff on a spoon

Dan wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:38:08 +0000, A.Lee wrote
> (in message <pan.2004.03.03.17.38.07.991900[at]darkroom.minus.com>):
>
>> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:24:34 -0800, Smudge wrote:
>>
>>> A student friend of mine is looking for a cheap solution to her
>>> problem whilst studying Media at college and then university. An
>>> iBook is £800 upwards and she cannot afford that. I have a spare IBM
>>> Thinkpad running Windows ME, P3 500MHz cpu and 128MB RAM. Can she
>>> use this for her work?
>>> She will need to use iTunes and iMovie, but if I could I would put
>>> iLife on the laptop. I am wondering if they will work on Win ME or
>>> can I put a Mac O/s on the laptop?
>>
>> No you cant.Win and Mac are totally different OSes, which use
>> different types of processors, so ones applications and services
>> just cannot be run on the other.
>> Your best bet for that laptop would be to get Linux installed, and
>> you'll have a good choice of free applications to use, maybe not
>> with the appeal of Apples software, but it'll certainly do the job,
>> and cost nothing doing it.
>> For Linux questions, please post to uk.comp.os.linux
>>
>> Alan.
>>
>>
>
> why does she need iTunes and iMovie although these are very good
> applications you can get alternative ones for the pc such as premiere.

the iApps are free. Premiere is most definitely not.

Smudge wrote:
>>> What can she afford? Ebay has iBooks for around the 500 pound mark;
>>> older models considerably less.
>>>
>>> Richard
>>
>> to be fair, i'd probably let mine go around that mark
>
> if that is a serious offer, a spec would be appreciated please?

i shall mail you details :-)

On 5/3/04 4:01 pm, in article c2a883$1rbun0$1[at]ID-98852.news.uni-berlin.de,
"Kez" <kieran.obrien[at]btinternet.com> wrote:
> the iApps are free. Premiere is most definitely not.

The iApps are no longer free, although they are significantly cheaper than
Premiere.

Cheers,

Chris

Richard P. Grant <rpg14[at]yahoo.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> >> But Macromedia stuff should be multi-platform. Does the OU get subsidies
> >> from Microsoft to ensure their stuff is broken on other platforms?
>
> This is what puzzled us.

I believe there are problems with Director making cross-platform
presentations - amazing. Sort of sorted in the latest release.

Then there's the pc only Authorware IIRC

Stuart
--
http://www.sundog.co.uk - cut that out to reply

On 5/3/04 7:46 pm, in article
1ga6nek.11rncxc1ntq6z8N%info[at]that.sundog.co.uk, "SM"
<info[at]that.sundog.co.uk> wrote:

> Then there's the pc only Authorware IIRC

It used to be on the Mac too, 'coz I remember using it [1]. It was *sort of*
file compatible with the Windows version.

Cheers,

Chris

[1] On a Quadra 700, which puts it early 1990s.

Phil Taylor wrote:
> In article <c25r7p$1pmvo5$1[at]ID-105400.news.uni-berlin.de>, A J Rimmer
> <arnie_j[at]hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Kez wrote:
>>
>>>you can run up to mac os 8 on a pc.
>>
>>Not sure if that is correct somehow
>>
>>I would have saved a fortune
>
>
> It's sort of correct, in that you can run various Mac emulators, all of
> which emulate 680x0 Macs, and can therefore run OS 8 (or is it 8.1)
> maximum.

System 7.5 was the last to support 68k macs, although I'm lead to
believe that there was emulated 68k code in the OS right up until OS9

Jim

jim_<NOSPAM>mcgowan <"jim_<NOSPAM>mcgowan"[at]mac.com> wrote:

> System 7.5 was the last to support 68k macs, although I'm lead to
> believe that there was emulated 68k code in the OS right up until OS9

8.1 is in fact the last Mac OS to work on a 68K Mac.

--
Mike Jenkins
Dreamcast / Gamecube FAQs - http://www.kwik-e-mart.org
Mike's Auctions: http://makeashorterlink.com/?F20712757

Richard P. Grant <rpg14[at]yahoo.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> Rowland McDonnell wrote:
>
> > reaslise that this assumption is baseless and foolish and a sign of me
> > being an ignorant and callow youth.
>
> Hey, that's my excuse, too.

Great minds think alike?

[snip]

> >> Maybe it's just because
> >> I don't learn how to use programs in that way.
> >
> > Which way?
>
> I learn by actually doing. I check the documentation when I want to do
> something that isn't obvious how to do.

Righto. That makes sense.

I'm personally of the opinion that one ought to work on understanding
`whatever it is you're going to do' at the paper-and-pencil level before
picking up a computer to do it. For myself, I then prefer to read the
manual, and *then* I get on and do things.

Rowland.

--
Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell[at]dog.physics.org
PGP pub key 0x62DCCA78 Sorry - the spam got to me
http://www.mag-uk.org
UK biker? Join MAG and help keep bureaucracy at bay