In article <XGaryG-ya02408000R1708030959550001[at]nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
XGaryG[at]ix.netcom.com (Gary Goldberg) wrote:

> I've tried for years (and a friend with a Windows machine can't do this
> either) to display Cyrillic (specifically Russian) on my Powerbook. I've
> now got IE 5.1.7 (OS 9.1, but the Cyrillic Language Pack wasn't installed
> when the OS was upgraded from 8.1). I've got "Russian" above "English" in
> the languages part of Languages/Fonts and a Cyrillic font, Pryamoj Prop,
> for all the choices, but still get just question marks where Cyrillic
> should be.
> (I have no problem with displaying Russian with Netscape 4.7x, but neither
> browser will display UTF-8 Unicode Cyrillic characters).

don't think that MsIE supports cyrillic

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In article atz02-6A44B0.18413317082003[at]msnews.microsoft.com, Harri Mellin at
atz02[at]netscape.net wrote on 8/17/03 9:41 AM:

> In article <XGaryG-ya02408000R1708030959550001[at]nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
> XGaryG[at]ix.netcom.com (Gary Goldberg) wrote:
>
>> I've tried for years (and a friend with a Windows machine can't do this
>> either) to display Cyrillic (specifically Russian) on my Powerbook. I've
>> now got IE 5.1.7 (OS 9.1, but the Cyrillic Language Pack wasn't installed
>> when the OS was upgraded from 8.1). I've got "Russian" above "English" in
>> the languages part of Languages/Fonts and a Cyrillic font, Pryamoj Prop,
>> for all the choices, but still get just question marks where Cyrillic
>> should be.
>> (I have no problem with displaying Russian with Netscape 4.7x, but neither
>> browser will display UTF-8 Unicode Cyrillic characters).
>
> don't think that MsIE supports cyrillic


Harri,

You are dead wrong on this one: I look at Russian web sites every day and
Cyrillic is very well supported in MS IE 5.1.7 and Mac OS 9.2.2.



Gary,

You MUST install the Cyrillic/Russian Language kit. There's no other way.

See if your installation disk will let you do a Custom Install where you
can select the Language Kit to be installed by itself (I know the 9.2.x
installation does). Otherwise, do a Clean Install of your system.

Also, if your machine can handle it, upgrade to Mac OS 9.2.2 ASAP,
regardless of the Cyrillic issue.

Good luck.


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In article <BB651678.1B173%sorry.nomail[at]all.com>,
Ramon G Castaneda <sorry.nomail[at]all.com> wrote:

> You are dead wrong on this one: I look at Russian web sites every day and
> Cyrillic is very well supported in MS IE 5.1.7 and Mac OS 9.2.2.

okeli dokeli

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In article <BB651678.1B173%sorry.nomail[at]all.com>, Ramón G Castañeda
<sorry.nomail[at]all.com> wrote:

> In article atz02-6A44B0.18413317082003[at]msnews.microsoft.com, Harri Mellin at
> atz02[at]netscape.net wrote on 8/17/03 9:41 AM:
>
> > In article <XGaryG-ya02408000R1708030959550001[at]nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
> > XGaryG[at]ix.netcom.com (Gary Goldberg) wrote:
> >
> >> I've tried for years (and a friend with a Windows machine can't do this
> >> either) to display Cyrillic (specifically Russian) on my Powerbook. I've
> >> now got IE 5.1.7 (OS 9.1, but the Cyrillic Language Pack wasn't installed
> >> when the OS was upgraded from 8.1). I've got "Russian" above "English" in
> >> the languages part of Languages/Fonts and a Cyrillic font, Pryamoj Prop,
> >> for all the choices, but still get just question marks where Cyrillic
> >> should be.
> >> (I have no problem with displaying Russian with Netscape 4.7x, but neither
> >> browser will display UTF-8 Unicode Cyrillic characters).
> >
> > don't think that MsIE supports cyrillic
>
>
> Harri,
>
> You are dead wrong on this one: I look at Russian web sites every day and
> Cyrillic is very well supported in MS IE 5.1.7 and Mac OS 9.2.2.
>
>
>
> Gary,
>
> You MUST install the Cyrillic/Russian Language kit. There's no other way.

I was afraid of that.

> See if your installation disk will let you do a Custom Install where you
> can select the Language Kit to be installed by itself (I know the 9.2.x
> installation does). Otherwise, do a Clean Install of your system.

I read somewhere that you have to install the Language Kit when you
Install 9.1; if that's wrong, I'd like to know

> Also, if your machine can handle it, upgrade to Mac OS 9.2.2 ASAP,
> regardless of the Cyrillic issue.

I also read that 9.2.x is mainly for those also running OS X (I'm not);
in any case, I had shutdown freezes for about 8 months after upgrading
from 8.1 to 9.1 at the same time I went from a G3/250 to a G4/500.
Apparently it was the Iomega extension causing problems, though
Iomega pled ignorance (fixed by renaming it to change its load order).
I'm not really up for another OS upgrade for those 2 reasons.

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In article XGaryG-ya02408000R1908032331150001[at]news.east.earthlink.net, Gary
Goldberg at XGaryG[at]ix.netcom.com wrote on 8/19/03 8:31 PM:


>> See if your installation disk will let you do a Custom Install where you
>> can select the Language Kit to be installed by itself (I know the 9.2.x
>> installation does). Otherwise, do a Clean Install of your system.
>
> I read somewhere that you have to install the Language Kit when you
> Install 9.1; if that's wrong, I'd like to know


The Language Kits can be installed later, if desired. You run the installer
but choose the "Custom Install" and uncheck all boxes except those
specifically and expressly referring to the Language Kits you need.



>
>> Also, if your machine can handle it, upgrade to Mac OS 9.2.2 ASAP,
>> regardless of the Cyrillic issue.
>
> I also read that 9.2.x is mainly for those also running OS X (I'm not);
> in any case, I had shutdown freezes for about 8 months after upgrading
> from 8.1 to 9.1 at the same time I went from a G3/250 to a G4/500.
> Apparently it was the Iomega extension causing problems, though
> Iomega pled ignorance (fixed by renaming it to change its load order).
> I'm not really up for another OS upgrade for those 2 reasons.



On a G4/500 you'll be MUCH happier with 9.2.2. It's probably the most
stable OS release by Apple ever. Its only downside is that you first have
to run the 9.2.1 retail install CD and then apply the 9.2.2 update. I'm
very happy with it. I have deleted all traces of OS X from my machine.

If you had a pre-G3 machine, I'd advice you to stick to 9.1. On your
machine 9.2.2 will run very, very well.


I also had huge problems with the Iomega extension, not just in 9.1.x and
9.2.2, but, to a lesser degree, even in 8.6. They seemed to get
progressively worse, until it even crashed during bootup. I tried
everything, and three different Iomega techs spent hours trying in vain to
get it to work. I simply trashed it. When I need to use the Zip or Jaz
drive, I just use Iomega's Guest utility to load the driver temporarily,
then unload it. Fortunately, Iomega drives have been rendered mostly
obsolete by CD-ROM burners.

Just my two cents.



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In article <BB699527.1B2E0%sorry.nomail[at]all.com>, Ramón G Castañeda
<sorry.nomail[at]all.com> wrote:

> In article XGaryG-ya02408000R1908032331150001[at]news.east.earthlink.net, Gary
> Goldberg at XGaryG[at]ix.netcom.com wrote on 8/19/03 8:31 PM:
>
>
> >> See if your installation disk will let you do a Custom Install where you
> >> can select the Language Kit to be installed by itself (I know the 9.2.x
> >> installation does). Otherwise, do a Clean Install of your system.
> >
> > I read somewhere that you have to install the Language Kit when you
> > Install 9.1; if that's wrong, I'd like to know
>
>
> The Language Kits can be installed later, if desired. You run the installer
> but choose the "Custom Install" and uncheck all boxes except those
> specifically and expressly referring to the Language Kits you need.

Good to know! I was afraid I was going to confuse my System file

> >> Also, if your machine can handle it, upgrade to Mac OS 9.2.2 ASAP,
> >> regardless of the Cyrillic issue.
> >
> > I also read that 9.2.x is mainly for those also running OS X (I'm not);
> > in any case, I had shutdown freezes for about 8 months after upgrading
> > from 8.1 to 9.1 at the same time I went from a G3/250 to a G4/500.
> > Apparently it was the Iomega extension causing problems, though
> > Iomega pled ignorance (fixed by renaming it to change its load order).
> > I'm not really up for another OS upgrade for those 2 reasons.
>
> On a G4/500 you'll be MUCH happier with 9.2.2. It's probably the most
> stable OS release by Apple ever. Its only downside is that you first have
> to run the 9.2.1 retail install CD and then apply the 9.2.2 update. I'm
> very happy with it. I have deleted all traces of OS X from my machine.

I'm with you on OS X there. I used various flavors of Unix at work for
over a decade. Putting Unix on a personal computer is like putting a
saddle on a cow (unless you're a programmer, of course)

> If you had a pre-G3 machine, I'd advice you to stick to 9.1. On your
> machine 9.2.2 will run very, very well.

Mine was originally a G3 machine (Wall Street Powerbook) but a Mac
guru who helped me with my problems after upgrading to 9.1 and who
has a later model Mac (desktop) said she had terrible problems with
9.2.1 and reinstalled 9.1 and is happy with it.

Since my system is now stable (especially since going from 192 to
256 Mb RAM, minimizing memory fragmentation), I figure I'll stay with
9.1, but thanks.

> I also had huge problems with the Iomega extension, not just in 9.1.x and
> 9.2.2, but, to a lesser degree, even in 8.6. They seemed to get
> progressively worse, until it even crashed during bootup. I tried
> everything, and three different Iomega techs spent hours trying in vain to
> get it to work. I simply trashed it. When I need to use the Zip or Jaz
> drive, I just use Iomega's Guest utility to load the driver temporarily,
> then unload it. Fortunately, Iomega drives have been rendered mostly
> obsolete by CD-ROM burners.

I wasn't using the very latest Iomega software just something I'd been
using with my machine before going to 9.1

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In article XGaryG-ya02408000R2108032251450001[at]news.east.earthlink.net, Gary
Goldberg at XGaryG[at]ix.netcom.com wrote on 8/21/03 7:52 PM:

>> If you had a pre-G3 machine, I'd advice you to stick to 9.1. On your
>> machine 9.2.2 will run very, very well.
>
> Mine was originally a G3 machine (Wall Street Powerbook) but a Mac
> guru who helped me with my problems after upgrading to 9.1 and who
> has a later model Mac (desktop) said she had terrible problems with
> 9.2.1 and reinstalled 9.1 and is happy with it.
>
> Since my system is now stable (especially since going from 192 to
> 256 Mb RAM, minimizing memory fragmentation), I figure I'll stay with
> 9.1, but thanks.


I had missed the PowerBook part. My recommendation was based on the
assumption you a had a beige G3 desktop machine or mini tower. I have very
little experience with laptops of any kind, just what I have picked up when
helping my wife troubleshoot her PowerBook.

I also have a PowerBook G3 sitting in the closet. Starting with a Toshiba
MS-DOS laptop I bought many, many years ago, I have had four laptop
machines. Not counting the time I have helped with my wife's PowerBook, I
honestly don't think I have put in even two hours combined of laptop use in
twenty years. Sorry.

That being said, I can see why your friend hated 9.2.1. Her mistake was
going back to 9.1 instead of upgrading to 9.2.2.



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In article <BB651678.1B173%sorry.nomail[at]all.com>,
Ramon G Castaneda <sorry.nomail[at]all.com> wrote:

> In article atz02-6A44B0.18413317082003[at]msnews.microsoft.com, Harri Mellin at
> atz02[at]netscape.net wrote on 8/17/03 9:41 AM:
>
> > In article <XGaryG-ya02408000R1708030959550001[at]nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
> > XGaryG[at]ix.netcom.com (Gary Goldberg) wrote:
> >
> >> I've tried for years (and a friend with a Windows machine can't do this
> >> either) to display Cyrillic (specifically Russian) on my Powerbook. I've
> >> now got IE 5.1.7 (OS 9.1, but the Cyrillic Language Pack wasn't installed
> >> when the OS was upgraded from 8.1). I've got "Russian" above "English" in
> >> the languages part of Languages/Fonts and a Cyrillic font, Pryamoj Prop,
> >> for all the choices, but still get just question marks where Cyrillic
> >> should be.
> >> (I have no problem with displaying Russian with Netscape 4.7x, but neither
> >> browser will display UTF-8 Unicode Cyrillic characters).
> >
> > don't think that MsIE supports cyrillic
>
>
> Harri,
>
> You are dead wrong on this one: I look at Russian web sites every day and
> Cyrillic is very well supported in MS IE 5.1.7 and Mac OS 9.2.2.
>
>
>
> Gary,
>
> You MUST install the Cyrillic/Russian Language kit. There's no other way.
>
> See if your installation disk will let you do a Custom Install where you
> can select the Language Kit to be installed by itself (I know the 9.2.x
> installation does). Otherwise, do a Clean Install of your system.
>
> Also, if your machine can handle it, upgrade to Mac OS 9.2.2 ASAP,
> regardless of the Cyrillic issue.
>
> Good luck.


Do you also have to adjust the fonts (in the preferences of IE)? (I'm
using IE 5.1.7 and system 9.1 [I have a NuBus Mac with an upgrade card,
so I can't go any higher], and I had a site where I fiddled with the
font preferences and I got it in Cyrillic (I had changed the default
preferences to accord with choosing Russian in the box above, now I'm
not sure the two go together because it messed up my other stuff), but I
changed the default back to Western (Mac) and now the site goes back to
gibberish. (I installed the language kit[s] previously.)

In article oliverlu.nospam-551319.01203917112003[at]news04.west.earthlink.net,
oliverlu.nospam[at]invalid.concentric.net at
oliverlu.nospam[at]invalid.concentric.net wrote on 11/17/03 1:20 AM:

> In article <BB651678.1B173%sorry.nomail[at]all.com>,
> Ramon G Castaneda <sorry.nomail[at]all.com> wrote:
>
>> In article atz02-6A44B0.18413317082003[at]msnews.microsoft.com, Harri Mellin at
>> atz02[at]netscape.net wrote on 8/17/03 9:41 AM:
>>
>>> In article <XGaryG-ya02408000R1708030959550001[at]nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
>>> XGaryG[at]ix.netcom.com (Gary Goldberg) wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've tried for years (and a friend with a Windows machine can't do this
>>>> either) to display Cyrillic (specifically Russian) on my Powerbook. I've
>>>> now got IE 5.1.7 (OS 9.1, but the Cyrillic Language Pack wasn't installed
>>>> when the OS was upgraded from 8.1). I've got "Russian" above "English" in
>>>> the languages part of Languages/Fonts and a Cyrillic font, Pryamoj Prop,
>>>> for all the choices, but still get just question marks where Cyrillic
>>>> should be.
>>>> (I have no problem with displaying Russian with Netscape 4.7x, but neither
>>>> browser will display UTF-8 Unicode Cyrillic characters).
>>>
>>> don't think that MsIE supports cyrillic
>>
>>
>> Harri,
>>
>> You are dead wrong on this one: I look at Russian web sites every day and
>> Cyrillic is very well supported in MS IE 5.1.7 and Mac OS 9.2.2.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gary,
>>
>> You MUST install the Cyrillic/Russian Language kit. There's no other way.
>>
>> See if your installation disk will let you do a Custom Install where you
>> can select the Language Kit to be installed by itself (I know the 9.2.x
>> installation does). Otherwise, do a Clean Install of your system.
>>
>> Also, if your machine can handle it, upgrade to Mac OS 9.2.2 ASAP,
>> regardless of the Cyrillic issue.
>>
>> Good luck.
>
>
> Do you also have to adjust the fonts (in the preferences of IE)? (I'm
> using IE 5.1.7 and system 9.1 [I have a NuBus Mac with an upgrade card,
> so I can't go any higher], and I had a site where I fiddled with the
> font preferences and I got it in Cyrillic (I had changed the default
> preferences to accord with choosing Russian in the box above, now I'm
> not sure the two go together because it messed up my other stuff), but I
> changed the default back to Western (Mac) and now the site goes back to
> gibberish. (I installed the language kit[s] previously.)



Sure, you need to define the fonts, but this is easily done in Preferences
and it's done separately for each type of Encoding, i.e. Western, Cyrillic,
etc.

I'm on MacOS 9.2.2 and the E-R fonts for Cyrillic work very well here.

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In article <BBDE2608.1D2C5%sorry.nomail[at]all.com>,
Ramon G Castaneda <sorry.nomail[at]all.com> wrote:

> In article oliverlu.nospam-551319.01203917112003[at]news04.west.earthlink.net,
> oliverlu.nospam[at]invalid.concentric.net at
> oliverlu.nospam[at]invalid.concentric.net wrote on 11/17/03 1:20 AM:
>
> > In article <BB651678.1B173%sorry.nomail[at]all.com>,
> > Ramon G Castaneda <sorry.nomail[at]all.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In article atz02-6A44B0.18413317082003[at]msnews.microsoft.com, Harri Mellin
> >> at
> >> atz02[at]netscape.net wrote on 8/17/03 9:41 AM:
> >>
> >>> In article <XGaryG-ya02408000R1708030959550001[at]nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
> >>> XGaryG[at]ix.netcom.com (Gary Goldberg) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I've tried for years (and a friend with a Windows machine can't do this
> >>>> either) to display Cyrillic (specifically Russian) on my Powerbook. I've
> >>>> now got IE 5.1.7 (OS 9.1, but the Cyrillic Language Pack wasn't
> >>>> installed
> >>>> when the OS was upgraded from 8.1). I've got "Russian" above "English"
> >>>> in
> >>>> the languages part of Languages/Fonts and a Cyrillic font, Pryamoj Prop,
> >>>> for all the choices, but still get just question marks where Cyrillic
> >>>> should be.
> >>>> (I have no problem with displaying Russian with Netscape 4.7x, but
> >>>> neither
> >>>> browser will display UTF-8 Unicode Cyrillic characters).
> >>>
> >>> don't think that MsIE supports cyrillic
> >>
> >>
> >> Harri,
> >>
> >> You are dead wrong on this one: I look at Russian web sites every day
> >> and
> >> Cyrillic is very well supported in MS IE 5.1.7 and Mac OS 9.2.2.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Gary,
> >>
> >> You MUST install the Cyrillic/Russian Language kit. There's no other
> >> way.
> >>
> >> See if your installation disk will let you do a Custom Install where you
> >> can select the Language Kit to be installed by itself (I know the 9.2.x
> >> installation does). Otherwise, do a Clean Install of your system.
> >>
> >> Also, if your machine can handle it, upgrade to Mac OS 9.2.2 ASAP,
> >> regardless of the Cyrillic issue.
> >>
> >> Good luck.
> >
> >
> > Do you also have to adjust the fonts (in the preferences of IE)? (I'm
> > using IE 5.1.7 and system 9.1 [I have a NuBus Mac with an upgrade card,
> > so I can't go any higher], and I had a site where I fiddled with the
> > font preferences and I got it in Cyrillic (I had changed the default
> > preferences to accord with choosing Russian in the box above, now I'm
> > not sure the two go together because it messed up my other stuff), but I
> > changed the default back to Western (Mac) and now the site goes back to
> > gibberish. (I installed the language kit[s] previously.)
>
>
>
> Sure, you need to define the fonts, but this is easily done in Preferences
> and it's done separately for each type of Encoding, i.e. Western, Cyrillic,
> etc.
>
> I'm on MacOS 9.2.2 and the E-R fonts for Cyrillic work very well here.


So, just to make sure, you select the language you want for a site in
the window at the top in the preferences, then set the default character
set and each font for it? (I think there may be a problem with my
browser preferences because I'm also unable to access sites for which I
have IE set to accept cookies.)

Also, do you know (or know of a site which details this) which fonts
it's "best" to set for the various categories (Proportional, Monospace,
Sans-serif, Cursive, Serif, and Fantasy), among those which are
available for free? Thanks

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Ramón G Castañeda wrote:

> I'm on MacOS 9.2.2 and the E-R fonts for Cyrillic work very well here.

These "E-R fonts" have the lowest quality I've ever seen.
Better use the Cyrillic fonts that come with Mac OS 9.
See also http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/cyrillic.html
for alternatives.

In article <Pine.GSO.4.44.0311171832480.1826-100000[at]s5b004>,
Andreas Prilop <nhtcapri[at]rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de> wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Ramón G Castañeda wrote:
>
> > I'm on MacOS 9.2.2 and the E-R fonts for Cyrillic work very well here.
>
> These "E-R fonts" have the lowest quality I've ever seen.
> Better use the Cyrillic fonts that come with Mac OS 9.
> See also http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/cyrillic.html
> for alternatives.


Which of the free ones do you recommend, especially (or at least) for
the "Proportional" setting?

In article Pine.GSO.4.44.0311171832480.1826-100000[at]s5b004, Andreas Prilop at
nhtcapri[at]rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de wrote on 11/17/03 9:34 AM:

> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Ramón G Castañeda wrote:
>
>> I'm on MacOS 9.2.2 and the E-R fonts for Cyrillic work very well here.
>
> These "E-R fonts" have the lowest quality I've ever seen.
> Better use the Cyrillic fonts that come with Mac OS 9.
> See also http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/cyrillic.html
> for alternatives.
>

They're OK for onscreen viewing.


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On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 oliverlu.nospam[at]invalid.concentric.net wrote:

> Which of the free ones do you recommend, especially (or at least) for
> the "Proportional" setting?

These:
<http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/cgi-bin/NewSearch?key=cyrillic+fonts>