I'm trying to create a new form document and save it as either a
Stationery Pad or a Template (whichever works best).

I can create the document (with its form fields) just fine. Let's
call it OrderForm. The problem is in figuring out how to save the
original OrderForm similar to the Normal template: meaning, when I
double click on the OrderForm, I want a new file to appear called
"Document" (or Document1 or Document2, etc).

What is happening, though, is: as I double click the OrderForm,
immediately a new document appears called OrderForm copy, there in the
same folder that the OrderForm is stored. Not "document", but
"OrderForm copy". This doc appears as it should, with all the form
fields blank, and I am able to fill out the forms correctly. BUT, when
it comes time to save this document (as you do when creating a new doc
from the Normal Template), I hit Command-S, and the doc gets saved as
"OrderForm copy" (or "OrderForm copy2", etc) in that same folder of
the original. In other words, no window appears, asking me what I'd
like to name it, and where I'd like to save it.

In doing a search in Word's help, using the word "stationery", I
couldn't find a single reference to "stationery". Not under the "S"
index, nor in any search.

My other question is: what the difference between Template, and
Stationery Pad? I tried saving the OrderForm as both a Template, and
as a Stationery Pad, but got the same results as described above.

Is this another example of Word getting hosed somehow (i.e., do I need
to again delete some files/prefs), or am I doing something
incorrectly?

Hi Tuqqer,

When you double-click a template directly, you get another template (.dot),
not a document (.doc). First, be sure your template is stored in the My
Templates folder (in Microsoft Office X> Templates). Now, open the Project
Gallery (File> Project Gallery, in case you've closed it). Navigate to the
template you want to open and double-click on it *from the Project Gallery*.
There's your document!

I wish there were a more direct way to do this but that's how it is. You
can send feedback to MS about this if you wish, by using the Feedback link
on the Help menu.

I'm not entirely sure about Stationery Pad vs. true Template so hopefully
someone else will jump in and elucidate.

--
Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/WordMac/index.html>
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/toc.html>


On 7/1/03 9:38 AM, in article
5351c401.0307010838.75a203fb[at]posting.google.com, "tuqqer"
<tuqqer[at]earthlink.net> wrote:

> I'm trying to create a new form document and save it as either a
> Stationery Pad or a Template (whichever works best).
>
> I can create the document (with its form fields) just fine. Let's
> call it OrderForm. The problem is in figuring out how to save the
> original OrderForm similar to the Normal template: meaning, when I
> double click on the OrderForm, I want a new file to appear called
> "Document" (or Document1 or Document2, etc).
>
> What is happening, though, is: as I double click the OrderForm,
> immediately a new document appears called OrderForm copy, there in the
> same folder that the OrderForm is stored. Not "document", but
> "OrderForm copy". This doc appears as it should, with all the form
> fields blank, and I am able to fill out the forms correctly. BUT, when
> it comes time to save this document (as you do when creating a new doc
> from the Normal Template), I hit Command-S, and the doc gets saved as
> "OrderForm copy" (or "OrderForm copy2", etc) in that same folder of
> the original. In other words, no window appears, asking me what I'd
> like to name it, and where I'd like to save it.
>
> In doing a search in Word's help, using the word "stationery", I
> couldn't find a single reference to "stationery". Not under the "S"
> index, nor in any search.
>
> My other question is: what the difference between Template, and
> Stationery Pad? I tried saving the OrderForm as both a Template, and
> as a Stationery Pad, but got the same results as described above.
>
> Is this another example of Word getting hosed somehow (i.e., do I need
> to again delete some files/prefs), or am I doing something
> incorrectly?

Welcome to the Mac :-)

On the Mac, the double-click ALWAYS issues an OPEN instruction. On the PC,
the OS intercepts the double-click and issues a COPY instruction if the file
extension is .DOT.

The only way to get a Template to result in a copy that requires a Save As
is to use the Project Gallery.

On the other hand, if you flag the file as Stationery, it *always* makes a
copy. In which case the source file MUST be a DOCUMENT, not a Template, or
the user will be able to save it ONLY to their My Templates folder.

So your answer is: "Use a Stationery, and ensure it's a DOCUMENT."

If you need to include logic, it's best to attach a Template to the
Stationery file and put the logic in there, otherwise every copy the user
makes will trigger the Macro warning around the world and drive various
system security measures into a frenzy.

Hope this helps


This responds to microsoft.public.mac.office.word on 1 Jul 2003 09:38:13
-0700, tuqqer[at]earthlink.net (tuqqer):

> I'm trying to create a new form document and save it as either a
> Stationery Pad or a Template (whichever works best).
>
> I can create the document (with its form fields) just fine. Let's
> call it OrderForm. The problem is in figuring out how to save the
> original OrderForm similar to the Normal template: meaning, when I
> double click on the OrderForm, I want a new file to appear called
> "Document" (or Document1 or Document2, etc).
>
> What is happening, though, is: as I double click the OrderForm,
> immediately a new document appears called OrderForm copy, there in the
> same folder that the OrderForm is stored. Not "document", but
> "OrderForm copy". This doc appears as it should, with all the form
> fields blank, and I am able to fill out the forms correctly. BUT, when
> it comes time to save this document (as you do when creating a new doc
> from the Normal Template), I hit Command-S, and the doc gets saved as
> "OrderForm copy" (or "OrderForm copy2", etc) in that same folder of
> the original. In other words, no window appears, asking me what I'd
> like to name it, and where I'd like to save it.
>
> In doing a search in Word's help, using the word "stationery", I
> couldn't find a single reference to "stationery". Not under the "S"
> index, nor in any search.
>
> My other question is: what the difference between Template, and
> Stationery Pad? I tried saving the OrderForm as both a Template, and
> as a Stationery Pad, but got the same results as described above.
>
> Is this another example of Word getting hosed somehow (i.e., do I need
> to again delete some files/prefs), or am I doing something
> incorrectly?

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Please post all comments to the newsgroup to maintain the thread.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john[at]mcghie-information.com.au

in article 7a35gvou33aqqt2cubfqsmccrbegi38a1c[at]4ax.com, John McGhie [MVP -
Word] at john[at]mcghie-information.com.au wrote on 03-07-02 5:20 PM:

>
> The only way to get a Template to result in a copy that requires a Save As
> is to use the Project Gallery.
>
> On the other hand, if you flag the file as Stationery, it *always* makes a
> copy. In which case the source file MUST be a DOCUMENT, not a Template, or
> the user will be able to save it ONLY to their My Templates folder.
>
> So your answer is: "Use a Stationery, and ensure it's a DOCUMENT."
>
Um, excuse me, but I don't think Tuqqer-san wants to do that. Or rather, I
think that's what s/he has been doing and wants to avoid. (It seems that
stationery in OS X doesn't work the way it used to in OS 9. It's certainly
not a change for the better, IMHO.)

> This responds to microsoft.public.mac.office.word on 1 Jul 2003 09:38:13
> -0700, tuqqer[at]earthlink.net (tuqqer):
> >>
>> What is happening, though, is: as I double click the OrderForm,
>> immediately a new document appears called OrderForm copy, there in the
>> same folder that the OrderForm is stored. Not "document", but
>> "OrderForm copy".
[etc.]

I just stumbled on a work-around that might be of some use to Tuqqer and
othres. Open the Information panel for the file OrderForm (Finder
command-i), uncheck "Stationery Pad" and check "Locked." That way, when you
double-click on the file, you'll get a read-only document; command-s will
then produce a dialogue allowing you to save it with a new name of your
choice.

HTH

--
Jeremy Whipple <jwhipple[at]gol.com>
Setagaya-ku, Tokyo

Hi John (and Tuqqer-san, if you're still with us <g>),

in article 601agvgasb0hnc5es82v5h5drpav26tm8p[at]4ax.com, John McGhie [MVP -
Word] at john[at]mcghie-information.com.au wrote on 7/4/03 1:38 PM:

> This responds to microsoft.public.mac.office.word on Thu, 03 Jul 2003
> 14:04:15 +0900, Jeremy Whipple <jwhipple[at]gol.com>:
>
>> I just stumbled on a work-around that might be of some use to Tuqqer and
>> othres. Open the Information panel for the file OrderForm (Finder
>> command-i), uncheck "Stationery Pad" and check "Locked." That way, when you
>> double-click on the file, you'll get a read-only document; command-s will
>> then produce a dialogue allowing you to save it with a new name of your
>> choice.
>
> Be careful of that: if the copy is a DOCUMENT, then you will get a SaveAs
> document. If the internal file type is Template, you will be forced to save
> in MyTemplates.

I'm sure you're right. I was assuming the file would be a .doc; don't know
nuttin' 'bout Word Templates. (I'm not bragging. I just never took to using
them, since Stationery files served my purposes fine under OS 9.)

> And I agree: there has been a lack of thought gone into the design behaviour
> somewhere along the line, and for once, I *don't* think this one is Apple's
> fault :-)
>
But no, I'm quite sure it is. The inconvenient behavior of Stationery Pads
in OS X is independent of the creator application. (Well, I haven't checked
_every_ application, obviously, but I did try an AppleWorks file as a
Stationery Pad, and it worked [or mis-worked, if you will] exactly the
same.)

> I have bugged the behaviour, and I wait hopefully to see if the next version
> does it differently.

So I think we should all "bug" Apple on this one! Making _Word Templates_
more accessible (e.g., directly from the File menu as well as from the
Project Gallery) wouldn't hurt, of course, and that's something you might
ask the nice folks at Microsoft to consider, but it's a separate issue from
the degraded functionality of _Stationery_ in OS X.

N'est-ce pas?

--
Jeremy Whipple <jwhipple[at]gol.com>
Setagaya-ku, Tokyo

"John McGhie [MVP - Word]" wrote:
-------------------------snip-------------------------
> And I agree: there has been a lack of thought gone into the design behaviour
> somewhere along the line, and for once, I *don't* think this one is Apple's
> fault :-)
-------------------------snip-------------------------
> John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer

Glad to hear Apple got at least one thing right! :-)
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va |pjones[at]kimbanet.com, ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
24112-1809
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto:pjones[at]kimbanet.com

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://home.kimbanet.com/~pjones/birthday/index.htm>
<http://vpea.exis.net>

Jeremy Whipple wrote:
>
> Hi John (and Tuqqer-san, if you're still with us <g>),
>
> in article 601agvgasb0hnc5es82v5h5drpav26tm8p[at]4ax.com, John McGhie [MVP -
> Word] at john[at]mcghie-information.com.au wrote on 7/4/03 1:38 PM:
>
> > This responds to microsoft.public.mac.office.word on Thu, 03 Jul 2003
> > 14:04:15 +0900, Jeremy Whipple <jwhipple[at]gol.com>:
> >
> >> I just stumbled on a work-around that might be of some use to Tuqqer and
> >> othres. Open the Information panel for the file OrderForm (Finder
> >> command-i), uncheck "Stationery Pad" and check "Locked." That way, when you
> >> double-click on the file, you'll get a read-only document; command-s will
> >> then produce a dialogue allowing you to save it with a new name of your
> >> choice.
> >
> > Be careful of that: if the copy is a DOCUMENT, then you will get a SaveAs
> > document. If the internal file type is Template, you will be forced to save
> > in MyTemplates.
>
> I'm sure you're right. I was assuming the file would be a .doc; don't know
> nuttin' 'bout Word Templates. (I'm not bragging. I just never took to using
> them, since Stationery files served my purposes fine under OS 9.)
>
> > And I agree: there has been a lack of thought gone into the design behaviour
> > somewhere along the line, and for once, I *don't* think this one is Apple's
> > fault :-)
> >
> But no, I'm quite sure it is. The inconvenient behavior of Stationery Pads
> in OS X is independent of the creator application. (Well, I haven't checked
> _every_ application, obviously, but I did try an AppleWorks file as a
> Stationery Pad, and it worked [or mis-worked, if you will] exactly the
> same.)
>
> > I have bugged the behaviour, and I wait hopefully to see if the next version
> > does it differently.
>
> So I think we should all "bug" Apple on this one! Making _Word Templates_
> more accessible (e.g., directly from the File menu as well as from the
> Project Gallery) wouldn't hurt, of course, and that's something you might
> ask the nice folks at Microsoft to consider, but it's a separate issue from
> the degraded functionality of _Stationery_ in OS X.
>
> N'est-ce pas?
>
> --
> Jeremy Whipple <jwhipple[at]gol.com>
> Setagaya-ku, Tokyo

You know----Stationery is something I never use(d) in OS9. I looked at
it once. But never saw the convience of after quiting the file(Closing
the file) (application) then going to finder then doing get info (or
Command I) to turn on stationery very intuitive. But hey, whatever
floats your boat! ;-)
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va |pjones[at]kimbanet.com, ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
24112-1809
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto:pjones[at]kimbanet.com

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://home.kimbanet.com/~pjones/birthday/index.htm>
<http://vpea.exis.net>

Hi Philip,

The nice thing about Stationery is that you don't have to go to the Project
Gallery to create a document based on it. You can store the Stationery
"template" anywhere and just double-click to open a new document. You're
right that creating Stationery is not intuitive, though; I learned about it
here on this newsgroup, from Dayo, I think (thanks :-).

--
Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/WordMac/index.html>
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/toc.html>


On 7/4/03 2:25 PM, in article 3F05F0A9.74689728[at]kimbanet.com, "Phillip M.
Jones, C.E.T." <pjones[at]kimbanet.com> wrote:

> You know----Stationery is something I never use(d) in OS9. I looked at
> it once. But never saw the convience of after quiting the file(Closing
> the file) (application) then going to finder then doing get info (or
> Command I) to turn on stationery very intuitive. But hey, whatever
> floats your boat! ;-)

Oh, don't give me credit, I'm clueless re Stationery, although now
contemplating investigating it. Pass thanks due along to some unnamed
person.... :-)

Dayo

On 7/4/03 7:04 PM, in article BB2B561F.2672F%bethrosengard[at]earthlink.net,
"Beth Rosengard" <bethrosengard[at]earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi Philip,
>
> The nice thing about Stationery is that you don't have to go to the Project
> Gallery to create a document based on it. You can store the Stationery
> "template" anywhere and just double-click to open a new document. You're
> right that creating Stationery is not intuitive, though; I learned about it
> here on this newsgroup, from Dayo, I think (thanks :-).