Does the new G5 cpu need an L3 cache or is that no longer
necessary?

With 8Gb of RAM is virtual memory a thing of the past?

Would you consider 7.5A power consumption pretty high?

At 40lbs., the G5 box is pretty heavy.

Nine slow speed fans? Wonder if there's going to be a Fan
control panel to display fan failures.

My apple store G5 price is $10k. With dual 2Ghz CPUs/8Gb RAM,
isn't that overkill for the average mac user?

Is the G5 cpu socketed or soldered? Swapping up to 3Ghz or
higher might be nice, when/if the time comes.

Current apps (from what I read) need to be re-written to
include "cpu register scheduling" (??) to benefit from the 64-
bit CPU. Is this going to be a big re-write issue for
softwares to be "64-bit well-behaved"?

Apple says the small integer tests were lower than intel's
CPUs. How can this be?

The finder looks like Windows' explorer.

Handles... wow... that's the clincher. NOT. They should at
least fold down so we can stack G5s!??

Why don't they offer 10,000 rpm instead of 7,200 rpm HDs?? Is
this a heat reduction issue?

My trusty old Graphite G4 500mhz is very concerned! ;-)

Can't wait to see one in action.

Andy

In article <Xns93A4594E590BAyoycomcastnet[at]206.127.4.25>, Buteo Lagopus wrote:
> Does the new G5 cpu need an L3 cache or is that no longer
> necessary?

No CPU really needs a L3 cache, or any cache for that matter. They'll
work fine without the cache, it's just that it'll run much slower.

Presumably, the G5 is currently fast enough that it does pretty well
with just L1 and L2 caches. It's certainly possible that some time down
the road they may add an L3 cache to the mix.

> With 8Gb of RAM is virtual memory a thing of the past?

No -- though swapping might be. Virtual memory is also how OS X does
memory protection. You'll never see VM go bye-bye then unless you give
up memory protection. However, the 8GB means things will be far less
likely to swap to disk -- so you'll have all the virtual memory in real
RAM instead of some in real RAM and some on disk.

> Would you consider 7.5A power consumption pretty high?

Not sure.

> At 40lbs., the G5 box is pretty heavy.

Well, it is solid aluminum. :)

> Nine slow speed fans? Wonder if there's going to be a Fan
> control panel to display fan failures.

If not, some shareware/freeware author will probably put one out.

> My apple store G5 price is $10k. With dual 2Ghz CPUs/8Gb RAM,
> isn't that overkill for the average mac user?

$10k? Hmm, the RAM might explain it. 8GB is a lot, but it still sounds
high. What other equipment are you putting on this thing? If I recall
correctly, the base price for a dual 2GHz is $3000.

> Is the G5 cpu socketed or soldered? Swapping up to 3Ghz or
> higher might be nice, when/if the time comes.

No idea.

> Current apps (from what I read) need to be re-written to
> include "cpu register scheduling" (??) to benefit from the 64-
> bit CPU. Is this going to be a big re-write issue for
> softwares to be "64-bit well-behaved"?

Naa, the G5 runs 32-bit applications just fine as-is and they should
still get a good speed boost. However, they will need to be modified to
take full advantage of the 64-bit features and other niceties of the
chip. Hopefully all that will be necessary to accomplish this will be a
recompile (assumign the programs were well-written to begin with and
didn't make any assumptions over whether quantities are 32-bit or
64-bit).

> Apple says the small integer tests were lower than intel's
> CPUs. How can this be?

Intel CPUs have always had a knack for getting really good integer
performance. It's usually in floating point that they get smacked up.

> The finder looks like Windows' explorer.

Not exactly -- the only thing it shares in common with explorer is the
dual panes. The content of the left pane is vastly different from that
of explorer.

> Handles... wow... that's the clincher. NOT. They should at
> least fold down so we can stack G5s!??

Even G4s had handles. Your point is?

> Why don't they offer 10,000 rpm instead of 7,200 rpm HDs?? Is
> this a heat reduction issue?

I don't know if there are any 10,000 RPM ATA drives, serial or
otherwise. The only 10,000 RPM drives I know of are SCSI and
Fibrechannel.

> My trusty old Graphite G4 500mhz is very concerned! ;-)

So's my quicksilver G4 867 MHz. But I'm a patient guy. :)


--

-------------------- http://www.techhouse.org/lou ----------------------
"Dragonmaster Lou" | "Searching for a distant star, heading off to
lou at techhouse org | Iscandar, leaving all we love behind, who knows
Tech House Alum | what dangers we'll find..."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:08:24 +0000 (UTC), lou[at]SPAM.ME.AND.DIE.techhouse.org suggested:
: In article <Xns93A4594E590BAyoycomcastnet[at]206.127.4.25>, Buteo Lagopus wrote:
:
:> Would you consider 7.5A power consumption pretty high?
:
: Not sure.

I think that might be a typo. Why would the power supply consume 6.5A [at]
115v but 7.5A [at] 230v ? I suspect the consumption is the same as the G4:
6.5A [at] 115v and 3.5A [at] 230v. The wattage consumption should be roughly the
same at either voltage standard.

:> At 40lbs., the G5 box is pretty heavy.
:
: Well, it is solid aluminum. :)

Doesn't sound that heavy to me. Then again, I haul tube guitar amplifiers
around a lot.

:> My apple store G5 price is $10k. With dual 2Ghz CPUs/8Gb RAM,
:> isn't that overkill for the average mac user?
:
: $10k? Hmm, the RAM might explain it. 8GB is a lot, but it still sounds
: high. What other equipment are you putting on this thing? If I recall
: correctly, the base price for a dual 2GHz is $3000.

In my experience, it's best to get a mostly-stock system from Apple and
then get upgrades from third parties. You can save a huge amount of money
that way. For example, 1 GB of DDR400 from Crucial is at least 20% cheaper
than the upgrade from 512 MB to 1 GB on the Apple store. Apple is charging
you more money for half of the equipment. Get up to 8 GB and 2x250GB hard
disks and the markup is astronomical.

:> Is the G5 cpu socketed or soldered? Swapping up to 3Ghz or
:> higher might be nice, when/if the time comes.
:
: No idea.

If it is soldered, it will probably be on a daughtercard, so it should
still be replaceable.

:> Why don't they offer 10,000 rpm instead of 7,200 rpm HDs?? Is
:> this a heat reduction issue?
:
: I don't know if there are any 10,000 RPM ATA drives, serial or
: otherwise. The only 10,000 RPM drives I know of are SCSI and
: Fibrechannel.

I've never seen an ATA drive faster than 7,200.

--
agreenbu [at] nyx . net andrew michael greenburg
http://www.nyx.net/~agreenbu/

Andrew,

andrewunix <agreenbu[at]nyx.net> wrote in
news:slrnbfgq10.9pf.agreenbu[at]nyx3.nyx.net:

> Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:08:24 +0000 (UTC),
> lou[at]SPAM.ME.AND.DIE.techhouse.org suggested:
>: In article <Xns93A4594E590BAyoycomcastnet[at]206.127.4.25>, Buteo
>: Lagopus wrote:
>:
>:> Would you consider 7.5A power consumption pretty high?
>:
>: Not sure.
>
> I think that might be a typo. Why would the power supply consume 6.5A
> [at] 115v but 7.5A [at] 230v ? I suspect the consumption is the same as the
> G4: 6.5A [at] 115v and 3.5A [at] 230v. The wattage consumption should be
> roughly the same at either voltage standard.
>
>:> At 40lbs., the G5 box is pretty heavy.
>:
>: Well, it is solid aluminum. :)
>
> Doesn't sound that heavy to me. Then again, I haul tube guitar
> amplifiers around a lot.
>

I like the sound of that. TWANG!

Speaking of sound, there's a 5.1THX output. Is there software that can mix-
down 5.1 sound on the mac? I realize this isn't part of the OS, just
curious, as I dabble in music and would love to have a go of it.

>:> My apple store G5 price is $10k. With dual 2Ghz CPUs/8Gb RAM,
>:> isn't that overkill for the average mac user?
>:
>: $10k? Hmm, the RAM might explain it. 8GB is a lot, but it still
>: sounds high. What other equipment are you putting on this thing? If
>: I recall correctly, the base price for a dual 2GHz is $3000.
>

Part of that cost included the 23" fp monitor.

> In my experience, it's best to get a mostly-stock system from Apple
> and then get upgrades from third parties. You can save a huge amount
> of money that way. For example, 1 GB of DDR400 from Crucial is at
> least 20% cheaper than the upgrade from 512 MB to 1 GB on the Apple
> store. Apple is charging you more money for half of the equipment. Get
> up to 8 GB and 2x250GB hard disks and the markup is astronomical.

Good advice, thanks!

>
>:> Is the G5 cpu socketed or soldered? Swapping up to 3Ghz or
>:> higher might be nice, when/if the time comes.
>:
>: No idea.
>
> If it is soldered, it will probably be on a daughtercard, so it should
> still be replaceable.
>

I see a correlation between the CPU speed and the bus speed is 2:1. I
wonder if messing with that ratio could be fatal or a bad idea.

>:> Why don't they offer 10,000 rpm instead of 7,200 rpm HDs?? Is
>:> this a heat reduction issue?
>:
>: I don't know if there are any 10,000 RPM ATA drives, serial or
>: otherwise. The only 10,000 RPM drives I know of are SCSI and
>: Fibrechannel.
>
> I've never seen an ATA drive faster than 7,200.
>
Yeah, I've got a Cheetah 10,000 rpm ultra-wide scsi in the box as well as
the ATA HD.

Also at the apple store, all the G5 boxes come with OS X/Jaguar!?? I sure
hope new G5 owners get the 10.3 when it's released at no charge.

So many questions still to ask. This G5 has certainly taken me by surprise.

All the best,

Andy

In article <Xns93A4594E590BAyoycomcastnet[at]206.127.4.25>,
Buteo Lagopus <lbl[at]pbzpnfg.arg> wrote:

> At 40lbs., the G5 box is pretty heavy.

But two pounds lighter than the latest G4s.

> My apple store G5 price is $10k. With dual 2Ghz CPUs/8Gb RAM,
> isn't that overkill for the average mac user?

I wouldn't see myself using 8GB of RAM really soon. I barely use the
1.25 GB I have now, so yes, that probably is overkill for the average
user.

> Handles... wow... that's the clincher. NOT. They should at
> least fold down so we can stack G5s!??

I don't know that they would stack all that well even without the
handles. And in any case, you might want some free air space between
them to keep things cool.

> Why don't they offer 10,000 rpm instead of 7,200 rpm HDs?? Is
> this a heat reduction issue?

The other previously mentioned issues regarding 10,000 rpm drives aside,
have you seen how much those things cost?!? Again, that would probably
be overkill for the average user.

--
Larry Fransson
Seattle, WA

Buteo Lagopus wrote:

> My apple store G5 price is $10k. With dual 2Ghz CPUs/8Gb RAM,
> isn't that overkill for the average mac user?

Apple memory price markets are part of the reason. Get the box with the
minimum memory configuration and shop around for memory. You'll be able to
do a lot better.

> Apple says the small integer tests were lower than intel's
> CPUs. How can this be?

Why not? Intel P4's are no slouch in the speed department.

> The finder looks like Windows' explorer.

So?

> Why don't they offer 10,000 rpm instead of 7,200 rpm HDs?? Is
> this a heat reduction issue?

There are no 10K RPM SATA drives available yet. There are 10K ATA drives,
but none in SATA yet.

--
Jerry Gardner
jg2-usenet[at]gardnerclan.net

>Does the new G5 cpu need an L3 cache or is that no longer
>necessary?

The G5, with its 1GHz frontside bus, would likely not benefit appreciably from
L3 cache.

>With 8Gb of RAM is virtual memory a thing of the past?

Well, yes and no. The Unix memory manager still uses VM, but the likelihood of
pageouts is very small...

>Would you consider 7.5A power consumption pretty high?

Actually, no. You should see the power consumption of P4 and Xeon systems! :)

>At 40lbs., the G5 box is pretty heavy.

A Quicksilver G4 is about 46 pounds. My PC weighs about 38 pounds.

>My apple store G5 price is $10k. With dual 2Ghz CPUs/8Gb RAM,
>isn't that overkill for the average mac user?

DON'T BUY YOUR RAM FROM APPLE.

8GB of RAM form the Apple store is going to add a big, hefty chunk to the
price. the same DDR RAM from a place like Crucial or The Chip Merchant is a
*whole* lot cheaper.

>Current apps (from what I read) need to be re-written to
>include "cpu register scheduling" (??) to benefit from the 64-
>bit CPU. Is this going to be a big re-write issue for
>softwares to be "64-bit well-behaved"?

Software that is not well-written is still "64-bit well behaved;" the 970 will
run 32-bit apps natively.

Software will, under some circumstances, see a signifcant speed boost when
rewritten for 64-processors. Doing this is generally much simpler than, say,
rewriting it for PPC or rewriting it for OS X.

>Apple says the small integer tests were lower than intel's
>CPUs. How can this be?

The PPC chips are really optimized on an architectural level for high
performance on floating-point calculations; they have a different pipeline
architecture and different integer unit architecture than Intel chips. Intel
chips have a longer pipeline and, if I recall correctly, more integer execution
units.

>The finder looks like Windows' explorer.

Actually, it looks more like the NeXT explorer--which is what the Windows GUI
seems to have been modelled after. :)

>Why don't they offer 10,000 rpm instead of 7,200 rpm HDs?? Is
>this a heat reduction issue?

Can you get 10,000 RPM Serial ATA drives yet?


--
Rude T-shirts for a rude age: http://www.villaintees.com
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Anyone know the speed of the Superdrive in the new G5, both in DVD-R and
CD-R modes? Will it be any faster than the Superdrive in the Quicksilver
G4's (which now seems pretty slow)?

--
Jerry Gardner
jg2-usenet[at]gardnerclan.net

Jerry Gardner <jg2-usenet[at]gardnerclan.net> wrote:
> There are no 10K RPM SATA drives available yet. There are 10K ATA drives,
> but none in SATA yet.

Alternate has a WD360GD available.

Stephan

I just find it laughable that they STILL ship a configuration with only 256
MB of RAM. Jebus! Has anyone seen what the sys requirements for Panther
are yet?

-g-

"Buteo Lagopus" <lbl[at]pbzpnfg.arg> wrote in message
news:Xns93A4594E590BAyoycomcastnet[at]206.127.4.25...
> Does the new G5 cpu need an L3 cache or is that no longer
> necessary?
>
> With 8Gb of RAM is virtual memory a thing of the past?
>
> Would you consider 7.5A power consumption pretty high?
>
> At 40lbs., the G5 box is pretty heavy.
>
> Nine slow speed fans? Wonder if there's going to be a Fan
> control panel to display fan failures.
>
> My apple store G5 price is $10k. With dual 2Ghz CPUs/8Gb RAM,
> isn't that overkill for the average mac user?
>
> Is the G5 cpu socketed or soldered? Swapping up to 3Ghz or
> higher might be nice, when/if the time comes.
>
> Current apps (from what I read) need to be re-written to
> include "cpu register scheduling" (??) to benefit from the 64-
> bit CPU. Is this going to be a big re-write issue for
> softwares to be "64-bit well-behaved"?
>
> Apple says the small integer tests were lower than intel's
> CPUs. How can this be?
>
> The finder looks like Windows' explorer.
>
> Handles... wow... that's the clincher. NOT. They should at
> least fold down so we can stack G5s!??
>
> Why don't they offer 10,000 rpm instead of 7,200 rpm HDs?? Is
> this a heat reduction issue?
>
> My trusty old Graphite G4 500mhz is very concerned! ;-)
>
> Can't wait to see one in action.
>
> Andy
>
>

> Apple says the small integer tests were lower than intel's
> CPUs. How can this be?


http://www.madville.com/link.php?id=43441&t=23

In article <Xns93A488EFA353Cyoycomcastnet[at]206.127.4.25>,
Buteo Lagopus <lbl[at]pbzpnfg.arg> wrote:


> > Doesn't sound that heavy to me. Then again, I haul tube guitar
> > amplifiers around a lot.

Tele, Strat, or something lesser?
--
JD-10

In article <bdcegd$rcrgs$1[at]ID-151657.news.dfncis.de>,
Thom White <thom[at]softhome.net> wrote:

> As a case in point, this G4 is far better behaved with 512megs than
> my last G3 was with 768megs... I couldn't have known that OSX would
> be /that/ different.

'Cause much of the graphical fluff uses Altivec.

--
David J Richardson -- davidj[at]richardson.name
http://davidj.richardson.name/ -- Dr Who articles/interviews/reviews
http://www.boomerang.org.au/ -- Boomerang Association of Australia

In article <slrnbfgq10.9pf.agreenbu[at]nyx3.nyx.net>,
andrewunix <agreenbu[at]nyx.net> wrote:
>I think that might be a typo. Why would the power supply consume 6.5A [at]
>115v but 7.5A [at] 230v ? I suspect the consumption is the same as the G4:
>6.5A [at] 115v and 3.5A [at] 230v. The wattage consumption should be roughly the
>same at either voltage standard.

Note that 6.5A at 115V is a pretty large number itself - especially
given that the MDD G4's have a 400W power supply, or 350 or so if you get
the "quieter" upgrade. 400W is a bit under 6.5A at 115V.

-s
--
Copyright 2003, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / seebs[at]plethora.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ - YA blog. http://www.seebs.net/ - homepage.
C/Unix wizard, pro-commerce radical, spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon!
Consulting, computers, web hosting, and shell access: http://www.plethora.net/

Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:06:00 -0700, no[at]no.no suggested:
: In article <Xns93A488EFA353Cyoycomcastnet[at]206.127.4.25>,
: Buteo Lagopus <lbl[at]pbzpnfg.arg> wrote:
:
:> > Doesn't sound that heavy to me. Then again, I haul tube guitar
:> > amplifiers around a lot.
:
: Tele, Strat, or something lesser?

Most of the time I play a '66 Fender Mustang, but I occasionally use a '68
SG Special when it's called for.

--
agreenbu [at] nyx . net andrew michael greenburg
http://www.nyx.net/~agreenbu/

26 Jun 2003 23:06:04 GMT, seebs[at]plethora.net suggested:
: In article <slrnbfgq10.9pf.agreenbu[at]nyx3.nyx.net>,
: andrewunix <agreenbu[at]nyx.net> wrote:
:>I think that might be a typo. Why would the power supply consume 6.5A [at]
:>115v but 7.5A [at] 230v ? I suspect the consumption is the same as the G4:
:>6.5A [at] 115v and 3.5A [at] 230v. The wattage consumption should be roughly the
:>same at either voltage standard.
:
: Note that 6.5A at 115V is a pretty large number itself - especially
: given that the MDD G4's have a 400W power supply, or 350 or so if you get
: the "quieter" upgrade. 400W is a bit under 6.5A at 115V.

Well, that's PEAK consumption.

--
agreenbu [at] nyx . net andrew michael greenburg
http://www.nyx.net/~agreenbu/

Buteo Lagopus:
> My apple store G5 price is $10k. With dual 2Ghz CPUs/8Gb RAM,
> isn't that overkill for the average mac user?

In the same sense as one of these
<http://www.smb.compaq.com/Subfamilies.asp?FamilyId=1324&ProductLineId=433&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=>
is overkill for the average PC user. That's why Apple makes the
eMac/iMac and why HP makes the Pavilion, which are still probably
overkill for the average Mac/PC user.

-Eric